Chapter 23 – Scott & Hudson: Page 2

Chapter 23 - Page 2

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  • Lisa Parsons

    Uh oh. : (

    • Krondor2000

      I agree. Oh man! :-(

  • Lleyn

    I like that Scott leaves it open like he does. I think that’s what Elan needs right now, find out what he wants and do it, instead of someone telling him what’s “best for him”. Though, of course I hope he’ll find out that he wants Rafa, and then goes to get him *innocent whistling*

    • I suspect Scott knows he might be a rebound for Elan. He is in a position at work to know quite a bit about relationships. It is my understanding that a rebound relationship is best avoided but if chanced; one handles it gently. Give it plenty of time and impose no expectations. Keep all options open. I imagine Scott has plenty of experience listening to others mill on about their troubles at the bar. Listening to Elan might be a pleasure for him relationship or not. In his place I would enjoy simply hearing Elan talk.

      • kuku

        Or play the piano!

        It’s going to be awkward when Scott says “And I got a scholarship! That I never even applied for!”

  • JesBelle

    Oh god, Scott! How are you single?!

    • Sadly, there are many people who don’t appreciate romance or sweet gestures and so some guys give up. Me, I’ll take my men with a healthy dose of chivalry, thank you. I would snatch Scott up in a heartbeat provided he wasn’t a smooth player.

      • JesBelle

        I’ve never met these people. I’ve heard about them, but never seen one in the wild.

      • DayiaKnyte

        I tend to be the single rose, nice dinner, bottle of wine
        kind of guy.
        As I’ve gotten older, it’s become less appreciated.
        I like a relaxed society … but we it seems to have come at
        the cost of being able to do nice things.
        I miss the days when you could go to a black tie restaurant
        or people dressed nice to go to plays.

        • JesBelle

          I think all that would go over gang-busters with someone who liked plays and dressing up and nice dinners. Scott is thinking about what Elan likes, that’s what makes it a swoon-worthy gesture. If Scott knew that Elan likes kawaii plushies and bondage novels, then a Hello Kitty in a leather corset would be just as romantic. A romantic gesture needs to say “Hey, I paid attention to you and noticed that this is something you enjoy.”

          • DayiaKnyte

            SPOT ON!

  • I am all for Elan and Rafa getting back together, but…. *squee* This is just too cute!

    …..Rafa needs to take lessons from Scott.

    Scott remembered Elan’s flower preferences? O.o

  • D. Garrett

    scott is a gentleman. guess we will find out where this goes… ;_;

  • PomixWing

    Oooooh…. that’s a sore subject, I wonder what Elan will say….. I feel like he won’t be ABLE say if they were a couple or not, since they never really DID talk about it after sex. EVER……… I’m going to keep my fingers crossed for Rafa to get his act together and get Elan back. Sorry, Scott :(

    • Lleyn

      Yeah, we all like Scott (a lot, after this), but really, the ship that still sails for all of us, has Rafa’s and Elan’s names painted on its bow. Ah well, perhaps Scott can help it take off.

      • PomixWing

        Right???

        And I wish Scott was real and gave ME flowers TT A TT

  • bronakopdin

    DOH

    that question… It must hurt Elan just to think about it even if that was not Scott’s intention :(
    I like how he is considerate besides of this though! No pushing the issue or sth :) and he remembered the lilies :D
    and Elan blushing is just soooo cute >/////<
    (I'm still cheering for Rafa though ^^)

  • For the record I’ve never been on a real date let alone a same-sex date. I can only say that in my circle of gay friends flowers would be greeted with an uplifted eyebrow, a smirk, and maybe a crack about wearing a dress. All this and yet the flowers would find a vase and sit in prominent view until they dried into an unsightly mess.

    What am I getting at? I’m uncertain but the gay guys I know don’t do flowers. That is, it never comes to mind. It simply isn’t part of our culture. If they bring anything it might be wine or beer for later. Things like flowers might be received awkwardly but it might hit a very deep emotional chord. That is why Scott’s bringing flowers strikes me as ridiculously sweet.

    Provided Scott isn’t a smooth player working what he knows about Elan for best effect this tells me, 1. Scott doesn’t appear to do this often, if at all and; 2. He doesn’t seem to be steeped in gay culture or at least gay culture as I know here in Atlanta, and lastly; 3. He appears to be a romantic soul. His remembering what Elan likes in flowers is more compelling still. Rafa is in for some tough competition. I cannot wait to see how this plays out!

    • Elan is a practical romantic soul. Scott figured out that Elan is atypical of the neighborhood, hookups and meetups and hanging out aren’t in his repertoire. Rafa, in a way, knew this too. He didn’t pressure or imply that there was expected sexual escapades in his original offer.

  • I AM R U

    …go away, Scott.

    • D. Garrett

      omg thats funny!

  • JesBelle

    Yeah, I think that bike thing at least qualifies as a date. A date is doing something interesting with someone you find romantically interesting, right?

    • kuku

      Well, and presumably a little arranging was necessary to borrow the bike, so… yes, let’s call it a date!

  • DayiaKnyte

    Themice … I swear … if you write this so we start having to think, “No, stay with Scott,” or “Damn it, you want Rafa!” I will hate you in the best way possable.

    Some are talking that this may be a rebound.
    Just how many months has it been since Elan was shot in the story’s timeline.
    I’m assuming it’s been between eight months to almost a year.

    • I don’t think it has been quite that long.

      • DayiaKnyte

        Doing a little Googling

        It takes six to eight weeks to recover from a simple gunshot
        wound (bone and flesh). Elan’s was much more serious; so I think we can safely
        say his recover was more like eight to twelve weeks; spending some of that
        recovery time at home.

        It seems there was short amount of time between his recovery and when the
        business meeting with his father took place (two weeks –say?), then there was
        the visit from his Uncle and his getting himself setup with his own place (how
        about two weeks for that?). All this would have had to be done before he could
        start his Good Samaritan causes (you know, most of those endeavors needing a permanent
        address and such).

        We are roughly four months out from the shooting.

        Once he was established he set up some scholarships, paid off some peoples
        debts and then transferred the deed and ownership of the restaurant to Carlos.
        If buying a house is any indication of buying a restaurant, we are talking at
        least two to three months for that. Credit checks, back ground checks, contracts,
        loan approvals, transfer of ownership, title fees, etc … I am assuming since
        Carlos had no clue until he received the deed, Elan actually has part ownership
        as a silent partner and made Carlos primary owner, otherwise they would have
        done credit checks and such on Carlos (and Carlos would have known something was up) … that paper work takes time to process.

        Now we are at six to seven months.

        How long was it from the time he set these up to when the actual letters and deeds were mailed? We saw strips where these letters were recieved … did they happen all in the same week or over a period of time? His trip into town with the woman he asked to look at Rafa’s work – same time or shortly after? How long was it from that trip with the furniture contractor until he went back, saw George and then Rafa went to him in the park?

        I’m thinking it’s been eight months to a year since the shooting.

        • No, not quite that long. I did have to do some research on the gun injury, and relied heavily on some crime groups and two books: Armed and Dangerous: A Writer’s Guide to Weapons (Howdunit Writing) by Michael Newton and Body Trauma: A Writer’s Guide to Wounds and Injuries (Howdunit Writing) by David W. Page. The “beauty” of gunshot wounds is that the trauma varies so greatly – to what body part, distance from the victim to source of bullet, exit wound, etc., and that gives fiction writers SO much wiggle room. I was vague on how far away the weapon was, but my reading made it apparent that he had to be hit in the right side, above the gut, so it can miss vital organs (stomach wounds are mostly always fatal) but do a bit of damage. No bones, but something that regenerates — like a liver, and a nick on a serious artery that would make it life and death if he didn’t get help fast. Plus, this is fiction, Elan (despite appearances) is very sturdy and healthy and has youth on his size (plus of course his dreams of Rafa helped him want to stay alive). His recovery was slow, but much happened after the serious recovery had been done, but he was still in the process of recovery while he did a lot (see the Gov, argue with his dad), which is ONE of the reasons he couldn’t just “take off”.

          IME, housing only takes that long if you are searching, the actual process isn’t arduous if bank approves your loan quickly. Here again, fiction, I think Elan has enough money in the bank and Uncle Felipe has money AND clout to expedite any of these processes.

          The weather was warm when he met Rafa and now it has gotten cold. I would shave off several months from your research.

          • DayiaKnyte

            “Not quite that long.” Okay six to eight then?
            “Shave off several months” Um … under six?

            What’s the ballpark figure?

            With everything Elan’s accomplished in such a short time, I’m just trying to figure out if Scott could be considered a rebound. Time plays a factor, but so does moving forward. Elan seems to be doing this in spades and, Scott may be just the person that will give Elan valid reason to leave Rafa behind.

          • JesBelle

            I had assumed that Elan paid for the restaurant in cash. My gran bought her last house with cash and it only took a couple of days. She wasn’t really looking either. My uncle mentioned that a house near his was for sale, she looked at it, they wanted $X for it and she offered $X-Y in a cashier’s check, and it was a done deal. Scads of money make so many things go faster.

          • What is the break off point in time that classifies whether one is a rebound or not?

          • JesBelle

            I’ve never quite understood the concept of the rebound. Is that when you date someone new in the hopes of distracting yourself from the heartbreak of losing the previous lover? Or is it when you end up dating someone because they are willing to take advantage of your vulnerable state?

            I mean, you break up and you carry that around for however long it takes, maybe even parts of it stay with you forever. It just becomes part of you, right? Whoever you see next, or whoever is around concurrently has to deal with at least some of your hurt, just as you deal with the old and new hurts of anyone you love.

            I’ve only done monogamy twice — once was disastrous and the other has (so far anyway) been a huge success. So “the rebound” is not a phenomenon that I have much experience with. All I know is that you aren’t supposed to date someone who is on it because it won’t last.

          • kuku

            The expression always made me think of basketball -there’s a shot that misses, the ball rebounds off the backboard or hoop, and someone tries to catch the ball on the rebound. So in relationships, it made me think that the person’s momentum might take them in the direction of a new partner, but it was really momentum away from the missed shot, the relationship that didn’t work. The motivation was more a reaction, getting away from/taking the mind off the former partner, than an independent action of seeking out that particular new person as a partner. How true it is in dating I don’t know.

          • JesBelle

            I would think that forming new attachments would be healthy so long as one doesn’t just have atrocious taste in romantic partners. Maybe the bad reputation of rebound relationships has more to do with the anxieties and insecurities of the new partner — the new partner could feel that you are only with them because anything is better than loneliness and rejection. Or to use the basketball analogy, the new person could be wondering if you are with them just because they happened to be standing in the way of your bounce.

          • DayiaKnyte

            That is what a classic rebound is.
            It’s not so much a person looking for a partner, but more just filling the void left behind. During the rebound period the person is still hurting and emotional.
            They haven’t reached that point where they can be objective yet.
            SO like you said, the person they are with has reasons to doubt their sincerity; as the person often will not feel the same about them once some time has gone by and they aren’t a puddle of emotional goo.

          • D. Garrett

            in thinking about elans personality, i think he is far too rational to just jump into a rebound relationship. he doesnt seem like the type to just use someone as a bandaid, or be casual about sex. when i look at these pages, i see a man who has been hurt but is considering a new relationship / partner in scott. i would have preferred scott to be a rebound because to me rafas chances of disrupting the relationship would be better. oh well.

          • DayiaKnyte

            JesBelle summed it up rather nicely, “Maybe the bad reputation of rebound relationships has more to do with the anxieties and insecurities of the new partner — the new partner could feel that you are only with them because anything is better than loneliness and rejection.”

            That is what rebound is, nothing more then finding something (in this case ‘someone’) to fill the emotional void left when a breakup occurs.

            There is no real fast and true rule for a time limit … but it is foolish to think that, before someone has dealt with the issues created by a seperation, that they will make sound objective decisions when meeting someone new. Thus my question and wondering how much time has actually past.
            If Elan had that conversation in the park with Rafa after just three months I would be like, “See if you still feel that way a month from now.” If the conversation happened after five or six months, I would say … yeah, you made your choice, I believe you, it’s time for you to move on and start seeing other people.

            Personally, even though the time lapse is not as long as I thought it was, Elan has shown a distinct disconnect from Rafa while taking measures to move forward with his life, and that means helping others. I see no reason why things with Scott could not progress.

            Thus my concern it may turn into Elan has to choose between two people; two really good people.

          • JesBelle

            Serial monogamy sounds like a pain in the ass. I’d hate to have to be alone to work through my post-breakup crap. Honestly, I think that just having some sex and affection from the lovers who are still around is a lot more healing than dissecting every aspect of the ended romance with my cronies. But then again, part of the reason I rejected monogamy in the first place was a distaste for goal-oriented relationships. It would be awful to be with someone who was only using you for comfort if you were hoping for a wider spectrum of emotional connection. When you just take things as they come, you can just provide that compassion without so much anxiety. It never occurred to me to ask if a lover was on the rebound or to think of it in those terms, but I know that I was with some people because they needed comfort more than commitment. But it wasn’t as if they weren’t worthy people to know or that I feel used somehow. I was always pretty happy to be there. If things don’t work with my husband, I hope that someone would be happy to be there for me, because I’d likely be a real mess.

            Still, it’s weird at this late date to realize there is some aspect of romantic love that I haven’t thought of from 108 angles already. I remember that one of my husband’s friends warned him that he shouldn’t start something with me so soon after breaking up with his last girlfriend, but it never occurred to me that I might be “just” a rebound thing, probably because I’m not used to trying to figure out where a relationship is going.

          • DayiaKnyte

            Being poly doesn’t always guarantee you will have someone during a breakup. Twice now, for various reasons, I have ended up being the one to leave a triad. It was not fun; and to be honest, casual sex, friends with benefits, etc … while helping to take the edge off the pain, wasn’t close to replacing what I lost.

            Dealing with the “post break up crap”, as you put it, by having causal sex is different than trying to commit to someone while your an emotional mess. Still, Most people don’t want to be intimate with someone dealing with emotional baggage, others don’t want to risk just being the pacifier, being there for someone, only to find out they are no longer needed when the person becomes more emotionally stable (that, or some variant, happens a lot; enough so it was given a name – rebounding).

            Depending on how much of a mess the person is, people usually aren’t in their right minds after a breakup … so trying to get into something serious isn’t always the best idea … but people try.

            That aside, Elan is obviously a very traditional kind of person and one on one kind of guy. Especially after what he feels went down with Rafa, if he decides to go on a date with Scott, I’m sure it would be done with a courting type mindset and not a just for fun let’s see where this goes mindset.

            I just hope that he is more open this time and doesn’t hide his feelings.

          • JesBelle

            Regardless of whether Elan is over Rafa or not (‘cuz obviously, he isn’t), I think going out with Scott would be a good thing for Elan. It would bolster his ego and widen his perspective on how romantic relationships look and feel. I can’t imagine Elan turning cold on Scott once Scott is “no longer needed,” so I don’t think it would be a bad thing for Scott either.

            Of course, poly comes with its own set of challenges. I was never in a triad; I just practiced “ethical sluttiness,” so I was pretty much never without any lovers, even when things ended with a primary. (That sounds like bragging. I just had a couple of very long-term secondaries.) I’m just sort of fascinated with the realization that the rebound simply seemed like a silly trope rather than any kind of serious situation. Now that I have stopped to think about it, a monogamist would probably feel that it isn’t wise to get involved with someone who is on the rebound. On the other hand, a demonstration of what it’s like to have your needs met might just make the rebounder keen to stick around and invest in a positive relationship. That might be what Scott is thinking — Elan is a good man and a serious, settle down sort. Rafa is a playa according to neighborhood opinion. Scott may feel that he is more Elan’s speed and that Elan would see that given a chance.

            Also, I think if a person gets involved with someone who needs a comfort object after leaving a relationship, and the comfortee simply drops the comforter once the comfortee is feeling better, the problem may not be the horror of “rebound relationships.” The problem might be dating jerks who do not react with gratitude and affection toward those who help them through a bad time. Not to say that the rebounder is obligated to stay with the comforter, just that it should at least create a friendship.

          • DayiaKnyte

            The fact of the matter is most people aren’t raised to view sex in such a casual manner. Thus all the pairing up, going steady, and jealousies that go with it.
            What you are failing to consider is the rebound period is that time when the person is not at their best emotionally or mentally. Rational thinking is out the door. Yeah, they may find someone to comfort them in the short term, but once they settle down emotionally and mentally many times people discover they are not compatible for anything long term, and in many cases may not have been platonic friends, so there is nothing to fall back on.

            Seriously, you must watch movies, some TV and read books … it’s not all tropes, stereotypes and exaggeration. For the majority of people, sex changes things, ruins friendships, makes things awkward or impossible to go back to how things were.
            That is why very few people still hang with the people they have slept with.

          • JesBelle

            Of course I get that I’m different. That’s why I’m in the habit of questioning conventional wisdom when it comes to love and romance. Following the script was disastrous for me. It left me alone with a huge mess of pain and self-loathing to work through. (Yes, I know that it wasn’t all traditional monogamy’s fault.) Before, when I had a relationship fail, I had a support system. In college I took my first shot at monogamy. I was so limerent that I agreed when he asked me for exclusivity. Long story short, it ended horribly and I became depressed. I didn’t see anyone for a year. I would say I was in the headspace where I would’ve welcomed anyone who could have alleviated that. But I didn’t even have the energy for the “rebound relationship” that I’m pretty convinced would have done me a world of good. I guess I don’t see anything wrong with taking comfort if it is offered.

            Polyamory had been so much kinder to me that I went back to it. But I’ve never taken my relationships lightly and I’ve never wanted casual sex. After all the heartbreak I suffered, I never slept with anyone if I thought I wouldn’t bring more positive to his life than negative. I understand if they didn’t want to be friends later, but most actually have.

            And I think that a few decades of looking at relationships from an outsider’s standpoint has been helpful now that I’ve decided to be exclusive again. It doesn’t make me question my commitment just because someone else triggers triggers love or lust or even limerence in my brain. I don’t take many things as givens — I ask what is expected of me and say what I expect from my partner.

            I really think this idea that “rebound” relationships are inherently riskier or unhealthier than any other relationship doesn’t hold water. Nobody is all that rational about choosing a lover whether they are sad, glad, or mad. Every love is a risk.

            I do partake of culture, pop and otherwise, so I had heard of rebounds. I just hadn’t really thought about them until the question was raised about whether or not Elan was experiencing that. This is the first time I’ve given it any real thought or done any deep reading on the subject.

          • DayiaKnyte

            Science and experience suggest otherwise.
            The more stable, secure and self aware someone is, the less likely they are to get into a relationship that is hurtful, unsatisfactory, or stay in one if it goes bad or becomes toxic.
            While you might appreciate having had someone to get you through the pain, once it’s done and you decide you don’t need them in that way anymore and decide to move on, you might be able to view them as a friend, but because of their monogamous preference, as far as they are concerned, you used them and don’t need them anymore.

            I’ve been in almost every conceivable relationship (short of commune), and it all plays the same. Even in the poly community, people make attachments more often than they care to admit, and when those attachments are broken they still hurt. Honestly ,,, for the poly person to escape into random intimacy is no different than escaping into food, drink or other action.
            It’s just a way to hide from the pain. Food, drink and activities don’t feel rejection when you stop using them though.

            By working through your problems (rebound, mommy issues, daddy issues, self esteem, whatever) without using sex and intimacy as a crutch, you are less likely to use someone else, settle for a less than stellar partnership or risk unintentionally using someone.

            Even poly relationships work better when the people know who they are, what they want and are looking for complimentary partners, not some crutch, fix or self esteem booster.

          • JesBelle

            But we are social animals, hard-wired to be happier when we are loved and loving in return. If love were only for those with all of their ducks in a row, it would be a much colder and lonelier world. I think we are much better off to accept love when it comes our way and to give it generously when we are so inspired, rather than worry about trying to attain something most of us won’t.

            I have no doubt that I hurt people along the way. After all, I got hurt plenty myself. I was always honest and upfront about what I was offering and I did others the honor of assuming that they could make their own grown-up decisions. But loving someone means exposing your vulnerable bits and we aren’t always as gentle as we’d like to be. I do rather resent the accusation that I was using anyone, though. I was (and still am) a flawed human person engaging with other flawed human persons. Joy and sorrow, selfishness and selflessness, kindness and cruelty are just part of life and love. I acted with as much good faith, self-awareness, and generosity as I could muster on any given day and accepted anyone I was with was doing the same. And I never once stopped to question whether or not I was wise to love somebody who had just broken up with someone.

            I am convinced that we don’t make nearly as many rational decisions as we think. Our logical forebrains are far too busy thinking up good reasons for doing what the other parts of our brains have already reached consensus on to have time to do much else.

            We are all just big, bumbling messes. What makes us beautiful is that we can love each other, anyway.

          • DayiaKnyte

            Resenting the idea that others may feel we use them doesn’t change the fact that we do. It happens. No, we aren’t perfect, but that doesn’t change the fact that the less ducks we have in a row, the more ill suited we are to be in a more complex relationship (and sex does add complications to a relationship).
            Using your analogy of ducks in a row … people on the rebound, suffering from major lack of self-esteem, etc … don’t even have there duck in the same room, let a lone on the same shelf in a row. If people focused

            A different angle of rebounding (or duck all over the place) that wasn’t touched on because Elan isn’t facing this; are the people that use that emotional and mental weakness to take advantage said person.
            Again, the less organized your ducks … the greater risk of being used as well.

            As a society, we have also undermined our hard-wired nature to be social creatures. Instead of working as groups and relying on each other in social settings; we are now taught from an early age to be independent, self-reliant, to not anybody. We are told to need someone in your life is a weakness, a lack of self love. Add TECH where most people keep their nose buried in a screen and NOBODY ever gives you their undivided attention anymore … the list goes on.
            We are no longer people that live in neighborhoods where everyone knows each other by name and can borrow a cup of sugar. Nope, instead we are a bunch of INDIVIDUALS stacked in rows next to and on top of each bouncing around each other in our little bubbles ignoring most of those around us.

            From you comments you seem a lot like me. I tend to put more stock and have more need for intimacy (from hugging to sexual) than most people around me (if it wasn’t for the fact I CAN work and maintain friendships I would worry it was an addiction). While we are social animals … even at our best, the norm is that the VAST MAJORITY of those connections are PLATONIC friendships, acquaintances, work relations. Sex and intimacy are something the VAST MAJORITY don’t just practice at random.
            Even in history, the concept of FREE LOVE and polygamy have been limited to smaller portions of the general population that the rest envied, ridiculed or put up with.

            The vast majority of cultures and social rules, people have more often than not leaned towards and do better with long term pairings and limiting their sexual encounters. That seems to be base line and rule of nature.
            Laws can’t be broken, rules on the other hand … there is always the exception to the rule. We don’t follow the base line, nothing wrong with that … but not following it, not understanding it, not agreeing with it, doesn’t change the fact that his how the BIG machine works.

            Even with alternative lifestyles (LGBT) … the majority of them lean to pairing of as couples (albeit, you tend to see more short term than long term – but it’s still one on one … one person at a time). As with straight mono couples, the more ducks one has in a room, on the shelf and organized, the longer, the happier and the healthier those couplings tend to be.

            While we seem to be on two sides of the coin, I do appreciate anyone that can have civil, intelligent discourse.

          • JesBelle

            I’m glad to know that my civility is appreciated.

            For the record, I didn’t say that I resent the idea that others may feel that I used them. I resent the accusation that I was using others. It may seem like a fine point, but there is a difference. The first would be a private matter between myself and the wronged party. The second is impugning my character.

  • Ninhursag

    Blushing Elan is so cute also I can’t help but think Scott is quite a naive person, not in a bad way, in the innocent kind of way.